The Bass Vault

So my dad and I have gotten the crazy idea of building a bass on our own.  I am just wondering if anyone has any tips on different parts of the construction process. 

I know there are tons of different woods used in guitar and bass building, but I have heard the wood type doesn't have too great of an effect on the sound.  I am hoping to design the body with a natural wood finish, so I want a wood that looks pretty good, something like curly walnut or quilted maple maybe.  Also, ideas for fretboard and neck woods would be helpful.

As for the pickups, I have been thinking active EMG-Jazz style.  I definitely want active jazz, but I want to get people's feedback on different brands of pickups.  I want something with strong mids and not too overpowering lows.  These pickups are what I have been looking at:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/EMG-EMGJ-Active-Bass-Pickup-Set?sku=301518

I have heard that EMG is mainly for rock and blues stuff, but I want something I can use in a jazz setting, any opinions? 

I think the hardest part of the build process will making the neck perfectly straight, anyone got some tips for the neck building process? 

Also, anyone have any tips on the type of bridge and tuning pegs I should pick up?

Thanks in advance,

John 

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John-Miller

John,

Wow ... HUGE topic.  There's ALOT to this - especially when you're talking about building bodies & necks from scratch, as opposed to, say, buying unfinished components that are already constructed & are ready to implement in a home project, etc ...); you know that, right?   I just have a few very high-level comments for ya.  

Firstly, you use the phrase "I've heard ..." several times in your post, regarding how different pickups & woods sound, etc... I'd recommend checking out as much as you can first-hand, before embarking on your adventure.  That is, if you care very much about the resulting sound of the bass, rather than this being just about the process of construction.  For example, you've heard EMG pickups are mostly for rock & blues, but you want something that has a good jazz tone & so are thinking EMG's might not be the thing for you.   Let me ask you - does a certain someone who is a co-founder of this site use EMG's and also play alotta super great sounding jazz? (hint: yes.)  You've heard that wood selection doesn't have a big impact on the overall tone/sound of the bass & seem to think it's a purely cosmetic consideration.  Again, don't assume what you've heard about that is true - in my experience, it is not.  Do as many A/B (side by side) comparisons as you can, between 2 basses  which are alike in all ways other than the body woods, neck woods & even fretboard woods used in them.   Do the same with pickups/electronics.  And what type of neck joint do you like?  Bolt-on; neck-thru-body; set neck? These can all sound & feel very different. And there are many other considerations; those are just a few of the major examples.

Secondly, you might benefit from & enjoy a few classes on luthiery (instrument building), if you can find one in your area.  I've even seen them offered at community colleges.  It can take many years to master, but an introductory course or 2 will atleast give you an overview of the fundamentals, and of what the major factors & considerations are, when it comes to building an electric stringed instrument. 

Good luck & have fun - be sure to show us the fruits of your labor of love!

Robert

I agree totally Robert... I've found big differences in basses with different body woods, neck woods, fingerboard, pickup combinations.

   I built (correction) put together a bass many years ago when I worked in a music store.  Schecter (I think that is who it was) made bodies, necks etc of all different types.  I picked the stuff I liked, bolted them together, experimented with different pickups, bridges tuners..  It was lots of fun, and the bass sounded great when I was done. 

 John, I might suggest you invest some time in music stores playing basses and comparing their features and what they do to the sound.  If you are serious about building it from scratch, then Roberts idea is awesome.  You never know where it might take you...   Just look at Vinnie and Joey over at  Fodera....

 

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Guy
BatB 2007
BNC VII 2005
BNC Reunion 2008 & Wooten Woods Weekend

Ok so I am almost done with planning stages, complete with a trip to the wood store today to check out the different types.  I've decided upon building the body out of a lamination of Bloodwood and Ash.  For the thickness of the body, I'm going to laminate 2 pieces of bloodwood with a 3/8 inch strip of ash in between.  My current fender pbass has a body thickness of 1 5/8 inches.  Does anyone know how much the body thickness varies from bass too bass?  What is considered too thick or too thin?

For the neck, I have pretty much decided upon buying a pre-made one from stewmac.com or something like it.

These are the different hardware parts I have decided upon:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/EMG-EMGPJ-Active-Bass-Pickup-Set?sku=301519

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Leo-Quan-BadAss-Bass-Bridge-II?sku=424729

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Bass_tuners/Schaller_Bass_Machines.html 

Anything you guys have to say would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

John 

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John-Miller

Just cut out sections to get bookmatched for the front and back sides of the body today.

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John-Miller

Hey John,

 I've been reading your posts and have some advice for ya. I'm a certified Luthier and use to teach at Musicians Institute at the Guitar Craft Academy. Your selection of wood sounds nice. i've never worked with bloodwood but read up on it and seems like it'd work nice. Just make sure you like the tonal quality of it. also take into consideration of grain. bloodwood seems to be a tight grain wood so will be easy to work with but Ash is open grain so there's some steps to take for it. though it's only a 3/8" of ash laminated in between the bloodwood you might still want to grain fill the ash if you plan on putting a clear coat on it. otherwise the paint will sink into the wood and you won't get a nice smooth finish. if you're going to leave it unfinished then you'll be fine. although I do suggest putting some gun stock oil on it to protect it from weather. and for the neck issue, instead of ordering one pre-made, depending on where you live I might be able to build one for you so you can get it just the way you like it.

 The hardware selection you chose is nice. I've used Schaller's on my basses before and honestly wasn't happy with them. if you still wanting those Jazz bass style clovers i'd say go with hipshot. They have a much better gear ratio and plus are much lighter. I used them on my jazz bass style bass that I made and love them. it'll make a big difference too when it comes to weight displacement. the worst thing is to have a neck heavy bass. the bad-ass bridge is pretty hefty so you shouldn't have a problem with body weight. if you want other options you should check out all-parts. the tuners are part # TK 7755-010 you might be able to get the bridge cheaper there too. I use the emg pj setup is nice. I've used them and they sound clean. what will really help their sound is an onboard pre-amp though. I've been stuck on the Aguilar OBP-3. it's a 3 band eq that sounds nice on everything i've used it on.

Best of luck on building and i'd like to see pictures of your progress. one last thing, i learned the hard way, make a full size template of your bass body and neck out of plywood or MDF fiberboard and see if you like the flow, if it sits right on your leg when sitting down and that everything's the way you want it so there's no surprises. 

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BassHead for life

Hey thanks for the advice!

I was thinking I would just varnish the ash, would it still be troublesome to work with?  I am also considering using alder instead of ash.  I know that alder is light, and durable and is a common wood type for bodies.  As for getting you to build me a neck, I live in Illinois just north of Chicago, so that might be quite a distance.

I looked at all-parts, and found these hipshot tuners. http://www.allparts.com/store/tuning-keys-bass-tuning-keys-tk-7755-010,Product.asp  It seems like they would work just fine, and are a good price.  The one thing I'm worried about, is that maybe if I buy a stock neck, they won't fit into the holes on the headstock.  Also, what exactly do you mean when you say the bad-ass bridge will help with body weight?  I'm concerned that the body will be real heavy, because bloodwood is an especially heavy wood.  I was looking at the EMG site some more, and noticed they sell what they call a BQC System that has a blend control, master volume, bass, treble, and mid control.  I really want to get it, but it is another $126, so I'm not sure if I should spring for it or not.

http://www.emginc.com/displayproducts.asp?section=Accessories&categoryid=33&catalogid=141

I think I'll try to make the body template in plywood tonight.  One thing I am a little worried about, is if the bass will hang normally with a strap.  The design isn't very abstract, I modeled it off of a Warwick Corvette.  When I figure out how to upload pictures, I'll put up my design.

 

-John 

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John-Miller

Varnish is pretty heavy so it might still sink into the ash...with alder it'd be no problem cuz it's a tight grained wood. your sound will change though from ash to alder. Ash has a lot of high end in it so it's a good combo with a dark sounding wood because it will help bring out the highs and harmonics. Swamp Ash is even better because not only does it have the high end but it's very light so weight wise it's great for bodies. Alder is a more rounded out sound. it's pretty even across the board for carrying lows mids and highs. all american fender's are made with alder so you have a reference for its sound. marcus miller's signature bass is made with ash so you can use that as a reference. If you decide to go with Ash here's what you have to do...

go to your hard wood store and buy some grain filler, make sure to ask though if it's oil based or water based. oil based grain filler will seperate from most finishes like Polyurethane or polyester, so ask them if it seperates with varnish. (if they don't know a furniture builder would). but make sure you get GRAIN filler and not WOOD filler. also take into consideration the color. maybe take a scrap piece of your ash and spot test the fillers because they will darken the wood usually but they have different colors to choose from. next, tape off the surrounding wood so you don't stain your bloodwood! i usually use vinyl painters tape but masking tape will do just fine. Next, all you do is apply some grain filler to a shop paper towel (i particularly like the blue "cloth like" shop towels they sell. they have a good texture) all you need is a little at a time. then work it into the wood in circular motions so that it spreads evenly and just repeat so you have a nice even color through your wood. don't leave any excess build up on there otherwise you might get dark spots. let dry for a day or so or until completely dry and set. then just final sand your body. i usually sand from 80 working my way to 600. any smoother and most paints won't stick to the wood.

as for your tuning keys if they don't fit there's easy way's around that. usually you can order the neck blanks to a specific tuning key spec. if not i'm sure they have the diameter's available so just ask them and double check with your tuning keys. if the holes are too big you can just dowel them in and redrill. if they're not big enough just widen them with a drill bit. hipshots are made to retrofit standard fenders though so you should be alright.  

if your body is going to be heavy you might want to consider a bridge other than a leo quan. hipshot, gotoh, and kahler make some great bridges that are very reliable but have half the weight. the reason people go with the leo's is usually because of the nice heavy solid bridge. (they say the weight helps with resonance, but there's no scientific proof to it.) what I usually look for in a bridge is options. i like adjustable string spacing, good movement on intonation and easy adjustable radius (string height). the kahler's are pretty light, solid brass and come in different finishes. they're a little pricey but have a lot of options. you can install them with the base plate and have a 6-way adjustable bridge or you can take the saddles off the base and intstall them as mono rails. if you go with kahler tell them I sent you and you might be able to get a bit of a deal.  

That EMG eq sounds pretty nice to me. gives you a lot of options. most preamps will run about that much, but as long as you made the control cavity a good size you can hold off on getting one now and buy one later if you need it.  

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BassHead for life

Ok so the parts are ordered, and I'm in for the long hall.  I went with the EMG active PJ pickups, and will leave room in the cavity for the eq system if I want it later.  I ordered a standard maple and rosewood neck from stewmac.  I went with the leo quann bad ass II bridge.  I don't think weight will be much of a problem anymore, because I got the book-matched bloodwood back and it is very thin.  The front top and back side of the body are only about a quarter inch thick.  Between the two bloodwood sections, I am probably going to go with an alder core.  I will go to my local hardwood store soon to check it out.  I am going to buy the machine heads soon.  I decided on the standard hipshot ones.  http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=93

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John-Miller

One such question has arisen...

When I am bolting the neck to the body, how do I know how far in to place it on the body?  I have the same question about the bridge.  I assume if these distances are just guessed, it will ruin the intonation on my bass.

-John 

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John-Miller

Dan Erlewine has some very good discussion in at least 1 of the books of his that I have on the subject. I would try to explain it but you might as well get if from the source.

How far you put the neck in is kinda up to you. Usually the end of the body heel is at the 17th fret so for a 34" scale bass that's about 3 1/2" or so. Best thing to do is to find a bass with the same scale length and measure it. What you need to keep in mind though is your intonation point. If you put the neck too far in then you ntonation point may be pushd so far back that its not even on the bass body anymore! The intonation point is determined by fret spacing. So if the neck you ordered is already fretted or has fret slots cut in yu need to find out what scale lengh its set to. Standard for 4 strings is 34" and 5 strings is 35". Mind yu some 5 strings are at 34". So best to find out for sure rather than assume. Once you know you find your intonation point by measuring from the front of your nut slot ( fretboard side NOT headstock side) and measure out 34" (if that's the scale. 35" if that's the scale) and mark. That is your intonation point. But you DONT line the front of your bridge with that point! On the badass specifically you should extend your G string saddle 3/4 of the way out. Line up the center of the saddle with your intonation point and make sure the bridge is straight and square and that's where your bridge goes. I have a trick for making this easier but its hard to explain by typing. Feel free to call me on my cell at (559) 304-4980. I have free nationwide so call anytime and leave a call back number.

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BassHead for life

Thanks for the help, once again another question has arisen.  Throughout my entire thought process, I've pictured a bass with a natural finish and no pickguard on the front.  Now that I'm getting farther in the project, I'm wondering how I'm going to mount the control knobs and hide the routing for the wires.  Normally I know the holes for the input and the knobs are drilled from the front of the body and the pickguard covers the holes.  The nut for the knobs then rests on the top of the pickguard.  For a bass without a pickguard, I assume you just rout out the cavity for the batteries and electronics in the back of the body.  Then do you just drill holes from the cavity in the back to the front of the bass with the nut resting on the front of the body?  If any of that makes sense, I'd be glad for tips on the process.

A bigger concern of mine is the routing.  With a pickup, you can cover up the holes you make in front of the body for the wires.   On basses with the cavity and cover thing in the back of the body, do you rout from there to the pickups by going through the middle of the body? I'm not sure exactly how you make the right paths for the wires without cutting directly through the back.  Again if somebody can make sense of these questions, I would love some help.

 

-John 

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John-Miller

Just to let you guys know where I'm at, I've assembled most of what I need for the project.  I have the bloodwood bookmatched for the top and the back of the body.  It is about a quarter of an inch thick, so I have alder to fit inbetween.  I am trying to find a planar for the alder, then I'm going to glue the bloodwood and alder together to make the blank for the body.  I'm not sure if that is what it's called, but basically I'll have all the wood to cut the body out of.  I have all of the hardware except for the tuners, which I should be getting soon.  I also have the premade neck from StewMac.com.

-John 

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John-Miller

alright, let's see....you're right about the electronics cavity being in the back for a bass with no pickguard. you'll have to route that out in steps...don't try to go the final depth in one shot.. just, be mindful of the thickness if the front of the body after the cavity is routed. i'm pretty sure mine is only .200" thick but i could be wrong. it's just got to be thin enough that you can actually thread the control knobs on from the otherside. but you make it too thin and you can crack through the wood if it's hit too hard. also, don't forget to route a lip for your control cavity cover. as for the wiring paths. you can make a template for your pickups and buy them, stewmac allparts both sell templates. but once you have those routed then you'll take the longest most flexible drillbit you have (of course just thick enough so all your wires will fit through) and from the neck pocket just drill straight through your P and J pickup routes. don't go past the J pickup route though. then, you just drill another hole from your J pickup route to the control cavity. that hole is pretty much a blind drill so be careful and mindful of it. also don't forget to drill a hole for your bridge ground. just drill a hole from a spot that your bridge will cover to the control cavity. just a heads up for you...don't forget to shield your cavity otherwise you will get lots and lots of buzz and interference. I personally use 3M EMI Copper Shielding tape. it's easy to work with and has great results. just make sure you get it with conductive adhesive otherwise you'll have to sauter all the pieces of tape together. hope the progress is going smooth..

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BassHead for life